On my Facebook yesterday I asked the question, “How have you been affected by attitudes in the church towards women?” A flurry of comments quickly showed up as well as an email from an old friend telling of her experiences.
Today I met someone who briefly mentioned that she used to be a part of a faith community that taught that women are created to fulfill the role of helping their husband attain their vision.
Tonight on Facebook one of my FB friends asked this question:
Mike Hutchinson wants to know what you think — can women be pastors / elders, or is this role reserved for men?
That’s not all folks. Surfing around a bit visiting some blogs I sometimes read I came upon this recent entry from blogger Jonathon Brink:
And when we oppress women by cutting out their voices, their participation, and their calling to leadership we have in essence cut ourselves off from the whole picture of our own humanity. We have oppressed ourselves. We are missing the half that is part of us.
For all of us, it is time to end this oppression against women so restore not for their sake but for ours as well. And when we do we can rediscover the whole image of humanity and of God in our midst. (from Jonathon Brink)
There certainly seems to suddenly be some storm clouds gathering in regard to the tension and conflict of gender equity within the four corners of Christendom.
Which leads me to ask the question here: How have you been affected by how women are treated in the church?
I was brought up in the Plymouth Brethren until the age of nine. They take the whole of 2 Timothy with the utmost seriousness. Women have to cover their heads and say nothing.
Fortunately my parents left and so I don’t think it’s affected me that much. But still it shows the crazies that are out there.
I have now been a Wiccan priestess for 18 years. I have also been a Unitarian for 3 years. They have women ministers (first denomination in UK to have one, in 1904). It just feels WRONG and frankly weird not to have women ministers / priestesses.
Many years ago I had an amazing experience. At the time I was on staff at a large ministry. I had been praying regularly with a group of women several of them in their 40’s who I admired tremendously. One day a friend of mine came to my apartment and told me that one of these women had been hired in the ministry in a managing ministerial role. She was so excited for our friend and as soon as I heard the news I burst into to tears to the shock of both of us.
I was crying so hard I was almost hysterical, which was far from typical for me. It wasn’t that I was jealous, on the contrary, I was relieved and proud of my friend. The thrust of the emotions I was feeling was a tremendous sense of relief that a woman would be entrusted with this role. It was most certainly a physical response, and it was then I realized just how much stress and hurt I’d been holding in. It wasn’t that I worked for difficult men. My bosses were very courteous and friendly. I guess unknowingly I’d become resolved, that especially as a single women, support roles were all to be expected. Somehow not knowing it I’d given up on any hope of equality once I had chosen to work in ministry. This was actually painful because I was not raised this way. My mother was a doctor and a pioneer in medicine in our city. I didn’t realize that I had adopted a very marginalized few of the role of women.
As far the “help meat” thing, in brief, there are some pretty amazing books out there that are actually very scary. Surprisingly, they have been written by women and make it all the more conflicting. So many Godly women are truly seeking to honor their husbands and families yet want to be true to their gifting and calling. If these gifts are truly from God there shouldn’t be a conflict.
(not because of the criticism, but because I haven’t known it where I grew up or was formed in my opinions of church and faith)
I’m a pastor and have never thought it strange that a woman was in charge of a congregation or leader of a church. I grew up with a woman pastor myself, and I never met criticism of women leadership until I started studying — the criticism came from outside my own denomination. Today I think of myself as priviliged because of it!
Thank you for sharing this blog and the words of your friend.
Thank you Ferg so much for affirming the God-given equity to women. The teaching that men and women have “roles” and therefore women are meant to be subservient by default of a chromosome is an insidious doctrine that blindly bars women from collaborating in true kingdom partnership with our brothers. I think it is wrong. Whenever a man speaks up, as you have done here, I am thrilled. It is those voices in the dominant power position who have more influence to affect change than those who are marginalized.
Please stop by again! And if you and your wife are ever in the Portland area let me take the two of you out for coffees.
It makes my heart glad to see more people starting to use their voice to speak up for the women of our faith. My incredibly gifted wife would be left on the shelf of our home church if we stayed there. Maybe she could help out with the teens or do a womens bible study but that’s it. What a disgrace. I wonder will certain denominations apologise to women in a few years like they had to apologise to slaves years previous.
I mean that. I think women are oppressed by a misogynist church when God is so much bigger, better and beautiful than that.
http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/04/26/10-reasons-why-men-should-not-be-ordained-for-ministry/
haha, thought you might appreciate that pam. :) this guy pastors (I think co-pastors?) Quest Church here in Seattle, which is like 2 blocks from my house and I still don’t regularly attend… hmm… I just like to read his blog.
hey anon, i know what you are saying is not exaggerated but is a common experience of many, many women in the body of Christ. And it is shameful. Not shameful to raise children or be devoted to a husband, but shameful in that there is a perimeter established of how far or where a woman of faith may venture in her God given desires and giftings. It gets my grrrr going!
Hey Tony, thanks for the link and just as soon as I can I will look it up. My household is very hectic this week! I am glad you pointed out the value on youth and beauty, aka sexual power. This is why Susan Boyle is such a remarkable talent and a wonderful delight. Pure and authentic in all her frumpy middle-aged self, and with the voice of a nightengale. I love her story, and it’s only just begun hasn’t it! (for those readers who do not know the Susan Boyle story follow Tony’s link. It is well worth the time!)
And yes, the missionary stat is accurate. I met my husband in Hong Kong where we were both serving in YWAM. The joke then was Young Women after Men as the ratio then (at least in YWAM) was about 4 women to 1 man. It’s nearly a miracle that I, of all people, should get married at that time when I was not looking for a mate, and that there were so few men. There is much to be said about women and men in overseas ministry, worthy of a blog post. Perhaps I’ll write about that soon. Thanks again for adding your voice to this discussion today.
Davida, dangit. Sexism and ageism. Grrr, Double Grrrrrrr!!!!!
This reminds me of that powerful prophetic word from Joel in the OT who spoke of the kingdom of God being of young and old and male and female. This certainly is what I hope for and what I hope to emulate. Where are the white hairs to counsel us? Where are the voices of the wise, sage women who have learned much of life in their singlehood? Where are the words from the deep wells of years and experience from our older brothers and sisters? I think we will see more as the Baby Boomer generation blossoms into their twilight years. At least I hope so…
Hey Indie, yep, sad but true. If you want to write about it some more and email me that would be awesome. I am very interested in hearing personal stories and experiences from women…and also men, of how attitudes in the church toward women have affected them. Expect to see more from this in future blog posts, many more future blog posts…
While in college I volunteered to do an internship at a church for free. The elders of the church wanted me to teach the teens. I was excited to be given an opportunity that didn’t come often in the very conservative church that I grew up in. One man that was a leader in the organization that had sent me to the church told the elders that I was not allowed to teach teenage boys, because I was a woman and I would apparently be usurping the authority of the boys. I could tell many, many stories like this one.
i heart anonymous…i HATE poinless women’s gatherings. they are SO annoying!!!! also, i heart susan boyle. when i heard her sing the first time i felt like someone punched me in the gut. wow! what a voice and what presence.
regarding women & the church. there is also the issue of single or married. if you are single (espcially as a women) and over 25ish you are pretty much a non-person. you don’t fit anywhere.
Pam
A mending shift has also been discussing this.
It’s worth mentioning the unspoken male thing that women are apparently worth more if they are young and photogenic — an attitude comprehensively challenged by the Susan Boyle story.
Finally, if you want to see courageous women of God, one place you’ll find them is on the mission field, where they outnumber men 2 to 1, and have done for years. Quite bluntly, the evangelism of the world is being done by women.
Bless you
Tony
Unspoken things would be the attitude of “show up and shut up.” Spoken things would be asking me why I’d want to go to seminary since I already have my M.R.S. degree (get it? Mrs.? I’m already married).
Being told that, despite my skills in IT and design, womens’ roles in church were anything related to children (which I’m terrible at), baking/cooking, cleaning, leading other women or planning pointless womens’ gatherings.
My background is Baptist, but this has been the same at most non-denominationals that I’ve been at.