In this week’s What If… series I write about the issue of women and the pulpit. In the world of Christian culture, most churches are male-centered in leadership and preaching. What if that changed? What if women were in the pulpit, too, leading and teaching in congregations the world over? Let’s talk about that!
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The first time I heard a woman give a message from behind a pulpit I had been a Christian for about three years. Up to that time, I had only heard men preach and had only seen men pastor. Of course I had seen women minister in women’s ministries and Sunday school, the side ministries if I may call it that. But I never saw a woman along side the men in churchwide public leadership or teaching. I had to leave America – and the church – before I did.
I had moved to Hong Kong to serve Jesus in Youth With a Mission. My training school was meant to be co-led by a husband and wife team. The husband became quite sick and was bedridden during most of our training. His wife led us, all on her own, week after week. She shared many times and exercised spiritual leadership and authority with no observable hindrance. I was in awe. I had never seen a woman lead like this. I didn’t think too much about it, and thought of her as a YWAM leader. She was not a pastor so this helped me accept her leadership. I was an evangelical Christian young woman and accepting a woman as pastor would have been like trying to let a grade school kid drive my car. It just didn’t seem right or proper or even safe.
From that time on my world got rocked over and over again as I saw many women with tremendous leadership and pastoral gifting. They were not debating their call. They were doing it. One such woman was legendary Jackie Pullinger, a British missionary who had landed in Hong Kong in the sixties and attained a high level profile. She had managed to penetrate one of Southeast Asia’s most dangerous urban areas: The Walled City. A lawless, gang-ridden part of Hong Kong that was exempt from local authorities due to a technicality in land usage. Jackie established a ministry there and began to help provide rehab housing for heroin addicts who were desperate for Jesus to heal them.
What if women were free to move in and out of the pulpit without a No Girls Allowed gate barring them?
She writes in her book, Chasing the Dragon, that she discovered that women workers were more effective than men workers. The agitated addict withdrawing from heroin could become violent and were known to hit male workers. But they would restrain themselves from striking out at female workers. This is how many women became not only rehab ministers but also spiritual ministers in the work Jackie did around Hong Kong. There was no male/female divide in who the Holy Spirit would empower to serve and save the lost.…or preach the word or disciple the addict. The work of God was free, unhindered by social constructs that many have corseted the Bible with.
It gets me thinking. What if women the world over were free to preach and minister like the women in Jackie’s ministry were? What if women were free to move in and out of the pulpit without a No Girls Allowed gate barring them?
Here’s an excerpt from my book Unladylike: Resisting the Injustice of Inequality in the Church:
I once prayed with a young woman who had secretly felt a deep call to the pastorate, but she had no mental framework to accommodate such a desire. People she loved and respected had taught her that girls do not grow up to be pastors. Not with overt sermons in her moderate church, but by the nature of the face of her church — exclusive male leadership and Bible teaching her entire life that exalted male power, as well as the glaring omission of women teaching from the Sunday pulpit — these were the unspoken yet powerful messages she soaked into her little girl heart over and over again, so that by the time adolescence came and with it the inspiration to teach and preach, she had nowhere to go with her sense of calling, except the rails of shame and guilt for having such a desire.
The polite oppression of her identity as female was a velvet-lined cell that offered her comfort if she remained in the status quo of traditionalism. What she did not know was that liberation into her full humanity and feminine power was not anti-biblical nor anti-God, and not even anti-church or anti-man. No, the only thing it threatened was anti-traditionalism for without a doubt the force of a woman’s willing subservience in the world of church is her commitment to uphold the system of tradition that put her there in the first place.
What she did not know was that liberation into her full humanity and feminine power was not anti-biblical nor anti-God, and not even anti-church or anti-man.
What if young women like the one in this excerpt had total freedom to pursue the call on their lives, full access to bloom in their gift and flourish within the church behind or in front of the pulpit? What would the church look like if women (on a global scale!) did not hold women back?
I want to offer three traits I think we would see in greater measure if women were in fair collaboration with our brothers in every realm of ministry and spiritual leadership, pulpit included :
- Churches would be more nurturing and hospitable. It is a no-brainer that women are naturally good at building relationships and welcoming home the forgotten son and daughter. We are gatherers. Jesus used shepherding metaphors in some of his storytelling about the mission of the church. Women are natural shepherds. There would be a greater level of shepherding and relational nurturing even women were truly let loose in the upper echalons of church government.
- Issues of marriage, family and domestic crisis would be addressed frequently. I once heard a marriage counselor lament that pastors did so little to address marital issues from the pulpit. “They say they can’t because then their phone would ring off the hook. They are not equipped to help,” she reported. I think, however, that if women were more involved in pulpit ministry and church leadership on a wide scale, that it would become ingrained in our faith communities to be sure to know how to address family/marriage crisis. These are the relationships that matter most to women (and men) and women know how important it is for faith communities to address them head on. Family matters would become more central, I imagine, if women were commonly possessing leadership roles.
- More Parties. This is what I think. Women love to hang out and talk surrounded by family, friends and FOOD! Rather than just put women in charge of organizing the next potluck or catering the next pastor’s conference, what if women were PASTORS and leaders and in their churches and were able to lead party gatherings for the benefit of all? I like to think that if women were more abundant in leadership, the body of Christ would party a whole lot more.
So those are my thoughts. I’m a dreamer. I want to dream what the church can become when women and men are in true partnership behind and beyond the pulpit. I didn’t even take time to write here about how Bible teaching could be affected or the Sunday service. Wow. Imagine those changesd!
These are just some of my ideas. What are some of yours? How do you think church would look different if women were behind the pulpit?

Thank God for the Salvos! Since the beginning women have been leaders . Even leaders of the whole movement . The current General is a Canadian woman . When ” called ” to ministry both husband and wife train together and they are ordained together. I grew up within this denomination. I am an oldie now and attend an Anglican church here in Australia but the church that I attend won’t have a woman speak in the pulpit .Sydney Anglicanism at its worst.
–Your Dreams are Changing the world, Sister. Xxx
Great, Empowering Post.
& I love the idea of MORE PARTIES!
Let’s change the world together !!
Pam, thank you again and again for your insightful agitating :) you are a treasure! I get what you are saying, and I’m so grateful for you. Church would look so differently if women were visible and were co-leaders. I think it would be more conversational. Perhaps a woman’s co-pastoring would bring balance to pulpit preaching. Instead of strictly the use of a pulpit/congregation model, women would tap into their multi-tasking abilities to mix it up. Have some Q&A sessions with those sitting in the pews. There would be a lot less sleeping in church!
Hi, I found your blog through a link on a friend’s blog; so I’m new here. And I must be honest and say that I disagree — so there’s my bias, upfront. Now, I don’t want to cause a fight because that would’t solve anything at all — just wanting to engage in conversation since all your other comments have been in agreement with you. Consider me iron sharpening your iron :)
Here’s my question: why would a woman need to be the pastor/church leader to implement the three results you mention (nurturing/hospitable environment, addressing of marriage/family issues, and parties)? Could those not be implemented by women lay leaders? What I see in scripture is women deacons, women teaching women, women (alongside their husband) teaching men (Priscilla and Aquilla), women loving their husbands to faith in Christ, women teaching their children to love the Lord, etc… Women serving the Lord through serving others in the church.
At my church I am not the pastor, nor is my husband, though both my husband and I have M.Div degrees from seminary (my apologies to Lisa D). At church we are simply laymen — no church leader titles for either of us. However when I see someone new (or anyone for that matter) I greet them and make them feel welcome, when I learn of a wife who is struggling in her marriage or with her children I encourage her (as I seek encouragement when I am in that situation), when I learn of a husband who is struggling I tell my husband, and when it’s time to party; trust me I’m there :) I guess my point is you don’t need a “title” to do these things.
Melissa Ann — I so appreciate your respectful presence and gracious spirit. I do disagree with you (and with pulpit use in general). But, if a church is going to use a pulpit, is it not a huge problem for those in the congregation to NEVER hear from a woman? To never visually see a woman? I’m talking the visual aspect alone of what goes on in most churches during a worship service. To not SEE a woman continues the view that females are less worthy…expendable…not needed, when God says both genders were made in His image. What we should be doing is exactly the opposite of what we currently do in church. We should be seeing both male and female so much that the distinctions are no longer there. We should be simply viewing people as people first. Not male or female first. Instead…view someone as a person who has an encouragement, word, or song from the Lord. The only way to do this is to have both represented and visual, all the time, equally, sharing together, leading together, worshiping the Lord together. If we don’t move toward this, then abuse, oppression, and violence towards women and girls will keep being fostered unknowingly by the institutional church. I’m not trying to blame all oppression on this alone, as I know there is personal responsibility, etc. — but it is a huge part of it.
Hi Laurie,
Thanks for receiving my comment in the spirit in which it was given. :) I’m a little confused by your comment because the original post seems to be referring to women in the pastorate but you seem to be commenting on women being visible in ministering (not necessarily as the pastor) so perhaps I’m misreading — if so, please correct me.
You are right — God created both genders in his image (Genesis 1:27) and in Christ there is no male or female (Galatians 3:28). In a spiritual sense, we are the same — that’s why Ephesians 1:5 says we were “predestined for adoptions as “sons” not sons & daughters, because sons received the inheritance in 1st century Christianity — both male and female are considered sons as in we are both heirs to the inheritance in Christ.
However we do not live in the spiritual world; but in the earthly, physical world where there is male and female. We are different. Physically we are different. Emotionally we are different. The way we view the world is different. Some of this may be cultural, but a lot of this has to do with simply being female or male. This is why the Bible addresses gender issues so often (Ephesians 5, Titus 2, Proverbs 31, etc…)
If your concern is simply that women are visible — praying, singing, giving testimony, reading Scripture, and other Bible-permitted services then I’m all with you. Women should be involved. I can only think of a handful of fundamental churches/denominations where women are not allowed to do anything in church, but simply be silent spectators. Mainstream protestantism celebrates the giftings of women in ministry (ministry as set out in Scripture). So with respects to the issue of women being “visible” (not as pastor) I think your grave concern is a bit overzealous as the majority of churches allow women to be “visible.”
However, if your concern is that women be allowed to pastor (which seems to be the intent of the original post unless I’ve misread) then I can’t agree on Biblical principles. I’m a complimentarian at heart. Male and female are different — one is not better or worse or weird — but different. Therefore they have different roles. This is observable in nature (childbearing, worldview, nurting, etc…) why would it not be the same in the church (1 Corinthians 11 addresses this in what I see as symbolism — the “head covering” being not an acutal head covering, but symbolic of being under authority.)
I think if we, women, spent more time focusing on how we can serve others in the name of Christ (whether it is in public or not) we’d be less “annoyed” by what we see as male-centered church. Isn’t that the root of the first sin anyway? “Thanks God for all these allowable fruits for me — that are delicious and nutritious — but I want that one that you said is not for me.” — “Thanks God for all these women, children, my brothers in Christ, my husband that you have placed in my life for me to minister to — but I want to be in the limelight, I want to be noticed, I want to be the leader.”
Again, thanks for receiving my comments graciously. Love debating and tossing around ideas :)
Because Christ is worthy,
Melissa Ann
Yes, to all of the above. I’m not in America, and I have a female pastor (two, actually). Yes, our church is (IMHO) very nurturing and hospitable. Yes, there is more of a focus on families, relationships and children than at other churches I have attended. And YES, we have food, we have parties and we have more food! “Table hospitality” is a big focus for our minister — every school holidays we have “brunch church” where we all sit down to a table together and eat and talk and learn together, all ages.
I’ll also add that our church outreach is eminently *practical*. Food for the sick, food for the new mothers, cards and calls for those who are absent unexpectedly. A food pantry for the poor and a particular local focus on the mentally ill (a large population in our area). Other churches I have been in do more of the “inviting people to come to seminars” kind of thing. Our church does inviting people to come for the FOOD — and we take the food out to other people!
We also have lots more co-operative connections with non-church businesses than I’ve seen before. We were planning a church mid-year festival, which started to involve businesses up and down the street and ended up being a whole street festival! I think women co-operate more and work harder at including others and there is less power-struggle and leadership conflict than I’ve usually seen before.
PS — Thanks for sending your book — arrived today!
@Lisa D, total bummer about that seminary scholarship thing. Missionary women are apparently given a pass since the mission field is short handed. I know a story of a missionary woman who held the fort down for twenty years because men would not come to where she was leading overseas in her denom. A man finally did join the work and was immediately installed as the leader for the team, displacing her despite her years of service and knowledge. Her attiude in the whole thing was this : The gospel is what matters. Not who is leading.
This sounds noble at first hearing, at least it did for me. But then I realized that the injustice of displacing her due to her female gender was an affront to the very gospel of Jesus who lifted people out of oppression. I get that she wanted their ministry to continue unhindered…and yet in that very thing the gospel was inadvertently hindered for the many women (and men) they had influence upon. Real Christian women don’t lead. They follow. They only lead as a last resort.
Ugh.
Ugh
Ugh.
And this is why I wrote Unladylike! (if you haven’t yet read it, or Jim Henderson’s book, The Resignation of Eve, I highly recommend both of our books!)
Thanks for adding your story to this discussion. We need to remind one another with stories like this that the inequality that women experience in the church is Real. It is not an imaginary monster under the bed.
I almost cry when I read your posts. I can imagine ministry in the beautiful way you describe it. But what I see as the practiced norm in many churches around me is far from that, with no visible signs of ever changing. I pray for a new vision among men and women in places that haven’t even begun to imagine it yet.
@Lisa, thanks for your comment. Clearly you have a deep love and care for the expression of church .I am thankful for people like you!
We can hope to be the change we want to see, as I think it was Ghandi who suggested that .How can we be and do church in a true collaboration and equality? IF the communities we are in are not, then it is on us to determine how to respond and how to then live. I pray too for a new vision among and women including myself. We need renewal!!
The pulpit would be replaced with a table– a dining room table, coffee table, a dinner table.
The pulpit is a power object used by men to assert their power. The pulpit is the most sacred (and the real estate it sits on the most expensive) object in the church. Whoever (is allowed to) stand behind this object is granted temporary magical powers over those seated opposite them. Thus the primary skill required by those “called” to lead the church today is “oration”. If you speak well you are a “pastor”.
However, Jesus called us to develop disciples not orators.
Clearly if more women led in the church, if women were “permitted” to explore the full range of their leadership capacities, if more women were permitted to think out loud and often, if women were granted the same degree of influence as men are then the church would have more disciples and fewer pew warmers.
This problem is not limited to the church. Women start 50% of all new businesses but receive about 7% of the venture capital. Studies have shown that if women’s businesses were funded to the same degree as men they would create 2 million new jobs in the first year alone. (< note to next President)
Clearly the same problem/opportunity exists in the current institution that dares to call itself Jesus Church. In three short years Jesus lifted women from property to personhood. If the men who currently run his church would find the ______ to do the same we would find ourselves immersed in new disciples.
@jim, dining room table, coffee table, dinner table.…Love this Jim and all of your comment. I didn’t even touch on the P word (power) in my post. So glad you brought this up, for this is the root of why women are still banned (for the most part) from pulpits and positions of authority and church wide influence.
I have said it before, I will say it again: the way churches treat women does not match how Jesus treated women. I am dedicated to helping spark change from my little corner of this great big world.
Exactly right — the pulpit is a huge part of the problem. I would much rather see conversations happening, not a long lecture with no give and take. My husband is a Jr. High teacher — the quickest way to have a student check out is to drone on and on without REAL TIME questions and answers…going both ways. This is true for any speaker, i.e. pastor, too!! The quickest way for the pastor to check out, and essentially be out of touch with the people sitting in front of them, is to talk at people instead of with them.
Pam,
the first time i heard another woman preach, besides myself, was at a vineyard pastors’ conference in 1999. she was the wife of a prominent pastor, and i was very excited to hear her preach. i was so disappointed. she had obviously done her homework. she handled the scripture well, but it was clear in the first 5 minutes that she was not herself. it wasn’t her voice we were hearing. i tried to stay with her, but tuned her out early. she sounded just like a man.
the other woman who spoke, also a pastor’s wife, dedicated her whole talk to urging pastors’ wives to support their husbands. she talked about how, as a girl of 10, she dreamed of being a pastor’s wife. she admonished women not to let themselves go, and coached us in the tender art of supporting your man.
i was beside myself in shock.
and then came the standing ovation.
i had to leave the room.
i was there as a vineyard pastor. well, interim pastor, which, as you know, doesn’t count for anything (sarcasm here, and just a touch of bitterness). i led our little congregation (because we were “little” we didn’t count either) for an entire year, preaching exactly 52 sermons. i loved preaching, but it took me the better part of 9 months to trust my own voice, my own way of communicating and preparing. but we loved it. we all did. except maybe our visitors. i watched dozens of visitors become agitated and nervous when i got up to speak. i made it my goal and my pleasure to watch their body language shift from resistant to relaxed and appreciative.
i lost 1 long-time member, an 85-year-old former pastor in a wheel chair. he stayed with me for several months until one day, in the middle of my sermon, he started up his electric wheel chair and just wheeled away, never to return. he couldn’t take it anymore.
i think if women were in the pulpit the church and the world would be in better shape. but we need to do more. the pulpit-driven model is a very poor way to do church. it keeps people sated and complacent, and over-values words, thinking, and presentation. nothing short of a revolution is required if the church wants to have value in our culture.
for now, though, the feminine voice is sorely needed.
@phyllis, wow. in just a few paragraphs you describe the stronghold of patriarchy in the church with precision and spot-on examples. Your womanly identity took hit after hit in those situations, and I am sure that many other in those situations did, too. I hear stories like this over and over again.
yes, the feminine voice is sorely needed as is the collaboration of true equality between men and women. I’m also intrigued by what you say that the “pulpit-driven model is a very poor way to do church.” That is sparking next week’s blog post for my What If … series. I will be relfecting on this for the next week. You and Jim have agitated my imagination. Thanks for that and thanks so much for adding your perspective and experiences to this conversation.
Pam — It is hard for me not to imagine women pastor’s as I grew up with women pastor’s and I was one for 15 years. What I do think though is that though they are accepted in some denominations they are not really received well. I believe honestly though my former denomination said they believed in women ministers only 3% of the total ordained ministers were actually senior pastor’s. I believe it was a lot of talk, but would have preferred women to be Children’s Pastors. When I left the ministry I left as a senior associate pastor of a church which had a husband and wife team as the senior pastors. When I finally went back to church I went to a different denomination because of the acceptance of my lifestyle. The United Church of Christ has lots of women as senior pastor’s. I wish this were mainstream and not something that still was on the side. For all my adult life I have been a part of a controversy when it comes to the church. From 22 years ago being a woman minister to now being on the side of being a christian and a gay person. I dream for a day when labels aren’t part of what we worry about, but how we best can serve the widows and the orphans
@jen, so with you on this, for the day when labels are obsolete. That day seems a millieneum away. Human beings…we do love our labels for one another, both within and outside the realm of church. But I’m with you…church is meant to be that society of true equity being demonstrated with one another no matter gender, our socioeconomic status or sexual identity. We are so far from that that I can depress myself if I think on it too long.
I keep my hopes up in that at least we are having these conversations and beginning to imagine a different world of faith. We cannot become what we cannot see (I heard that quote somewhere). At least we are beginning to ask God for new wineskins and new wine!!!
Thanks for reading!
I dream with you, Jen! Yes, absolutely.….
a touchy issue, indeed.
In Seminary I was told I couldn’t get a scholarship (they were for men training for pastorship only) but if I was going to be a missionary, probably I could. I kept wondering why women teaching men overseas didn’t toss their whole argument out the window. Foreign men can be taught by American females, but American men, no that’s a subversion of authority. nonsensical.
I didn’t want to be a pastor anyway…I just wanted to write better books.
Personally, I like the idea of co-pastors, one male and one female. Mutual submission…didn’t some dud name Paul say something about that? :) I appreciate what each gender can bring to ministry.